There is an article about transmutation circles here, and the section here, both have a considerable amount of information. Should we make the separate article a main article and link to it or merge the TC article with this one? Kiadony 08:21, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Personally, I think it'd be best to merge the TC article into the alchemy article and just have Transmutation Circle redirect to this section. I just wonder if we can add more pictures to the TC section of this article without making it look cluttered or if the section needs more than one picture.CorbeauKarasu 12:36, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Well, if the section is long enough (if we include as much info as we can) it won't look too bad with several images. And we can make smaller thumbnails. Kiadony 15:42, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
The pages used to be separate until they were merged. Though there may admittedly be a case for separating out the Human Transmutation section into its own page (though I also feel it would be best included here) The concept of Transmutation Circles is far too central (pun?) to Alchemy as to be separated into its own thing. CorbeauKarasu 10:34, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
Reversal Alchemy? Edit
I was wondering, since Ed gave up his "gate" to give Al his body back, is it possible to reverse it to get his gate back?
In other words, can someone reverse the process to get back there gate if they lost it.? 184.108.40.206 22:17, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
No, it's permament. The only reason Ed was able to come back to the mortal plane was because he and Al were interlinked and he used Al's Gate. Mustang even says that he couldn't do it, since if he destroyed his Gate (only one), he'd never be able to get back. Tommy-Vercetti 23:23, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
I doubt it. Since each person's Gate can be thought of as part of them (the part that allows them to use alchemy), creating one could likely be considered a form of human transmutation. At least, that's my opinion. Of course, there is probably no canon answer, since it has no part in the story. Even if Arakawa has an answer, it's not canon unless she releases it to the public.--Fullmetal Fan 23:32, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
Since the box was limited Edit
The 2003 anime establishes that the power to use alchemy comes from dead humans in "our" world, so, since humans repopulate like crazy (just like in real life) technically there is no limit to the surplus of available energy, so thus, it originally negates the manga in which "concentrated human souls power alchemy".
The manga knew what it was doing, and the 2003 series copied it until it diverged and then just pulled some stupid plot point out which negated the entire concept itself, that the alchemic energy is never ending.
In the manga, even the non-stone alchemy came from Father (who was essentially a stone) so I think we should keep that the 2003 series negates the Exchange rule entirely. Remember in the manga, the only kind of alchemy that isn't Philosopher Stone related is Alkahestry, which isn't the same thing. Tommy-Vercetti 19:09, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
Red vs Blue Edit
I get the concept entirely, but in the manga, in reality, Amestrian "Alchemy" is a total ploy set up by Father and the Homunculi, using Father for its energy source. Well, if that's the case, as a living stone himself, then technically shouldn't ALL Amestrian Alchemy then be red as well?
Only Alkahestry, which actually uses Earth's energy should be blue I thought. Tommy-Vercetti 18:44, July 22, 2011 (UTC)
- Still, there *is* such difference in the anime, I mean, they do use those colours and we should note that. Of course, technically all of Amestrian alchemy is stone-powered, but they still made the lightnings blue, to avoid spoilers maybe? --kiadony 06:17, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not sure the blue is to avoid spoilers, if I had seen red lightning without knowing the reason I wouldn't think "the lightning is red because of the philosopher's stone", I'd think "red is just the colour they chose". Maybe someone else would look deeper into it and think about the reason for the colour, but I for one wouldn't. Fullmetal Fan 06:52, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, or maybe they simply didn't know about Father powering the alchemy of Amestris. I don't know whether Arakawa revealed it to them in advance or not. Also, I believe that the colour scheme was reused from the 2003 anime, where it actually worked. In the 2009 anime however, it could be considered a plot hole. --kiadony 07:06, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
I still can't call it a plothole. If you think about it another way, even though all the Alchemy is coming from Father, essentially a living Stone, regular alchemists are still bound by Equivelant Exchange, which would make no sense if they were using a stone. So maybe Father filters his power down so it's just a collection of available energy, rather than each alchemist literally using a stone themselves. Like, when you have a literal stone in-hand, you're using its power directly. But with Father, it's just a like a reservoir of energy that collected from him and it's not particularly directly from the Stone. So then it makes sense that it would be blue in that regard. That's just what I think. Tommy-Vercetti 17:46, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
In the end of FMA: Brotherhood. When Ed sacrifices his gate. Does Ed only lose the ability of the use of Alchemy. Or does everyone in the world of FMA lose the ability of the use of Alchemy? I'm confused ^ ~ ^
It's only Edward who loses his ability because he sacrificed it personally. Everyone else who could use it before still can. Also, please remember to sign your talk page entries with four tildes (~). CorbeauKarasu 02:01, August 30, 2011 (UTC)
Points of Order Edit
Browsing this article, I noticed I had several problems with its accuracy:
1. I don't recall anything that says, "Amestrian alchemy is powered by Father." I realize this was suggested in an earlier volume, but towards the end, the "big secret" about the Philosophers Stone turned out to be just that Father was using it to stop alchemy. The theory the article posits does technically explain the same thing as what I said, but it contains more assumptions. So, that is why I am changing that.
2. This one I'm not changing, because my recollection might be a bit foggy, but wasn't it the case that, in the 2003 anime, yellow was actually the "general" color for Transmutations, & blue was the color used by anyone who had seen the Gate? I seem to recall in the "revive their mother" episode where Ed & Al activate the circle with a yellow glow (albeit with some blue), before it turns purple. And then every Transmutation they've used since then has been blue. Same with Izumi, Dante, & Hohenheim.
3. The 2003 anime concept in no way negates the concept of Equivalent Exchange. I don't know where you're getting that. Hohenheim even brings it up in explaining that "the energy has to come from somewhere." In-universe, it's never explained how alchemists get around this hole in the theory. However, it's mentioned that Amestrians don't have a great understanding of physics, so it's possible that they never even realized that the lack of a known energy source was problematic to the Equivalent Exchange law.
I think that's all, for now.220.127.116.11 21:53, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
Near the end of the series Hohenheim tells Edward that the energy for alchemy comes from the stone inside Father's body. Also, when they come out of Gluttony's stomach Father does something that stops all the Alchemists in Central from being able to transmute, but Scar and May are still able because they use Xingese alchemy.
I think you're right about equivalent exchange in the 2003 anime though, the souls passing through the gate are simply what powers the transmutations, something still can't be made from nothing. As for the spark colour, I haven't watched the 2003 anime in years, so I can't remember how it works. Fullmetal Fan 22:04, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
Homage to Alchemy different version? Edit
Hey guys, this can be an inappropirate place to ask this but in FMA: Brotherhood OST there is this song called Main theme Homage to Alchemy. Do you know of any different version of that song? That different version of that song was used in the anime. Sorry for my English by the way18.104.22.168 22:00, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
Amestrian Alchemy Error? Edit
The article explains that the source of Amestrian alchemy is Father's Philosopher's Stone, but I don't think that's true. The way Scar and Hohenheim explained it to Lan Fan and Mei was that Amestrian alchemy did derive its energy from tectonic plate movement, but Father could use the Philosopher's Stone to impede or completely block it off. When Scar's brother said, "There's something strange about this country's alchemy", he was referring to the way it was being hindered.
Another reason I think this is correct is that there is no way Father's Philosopher's Stone could provide the energy for every transmutation performed in Amestris for 400 years. It would have been used up too fast, and any human transmutations performed on live humans would have been successful if the stone was serving as a catalyst.
This would also resolve the "Red vs Blue" discussion further up the page.